Southern California Air Board Rejects Pollution Rules Aft…

Southern California’s air quality board rejected proposed rules to phase out gas-powered appliances after receiving more than 20,000 opposition comments generated through CiviClick, “the first and best AI-powered grassroots advocacy platform.” Phys.org report…

Diesel != Gasoline. That doesn't mean that both of them don't contribute to health related issues and air quality problems. The problem with any gas burning inside the house, including gas fireplaces in your living space is that it creates fine particulates and NOx emissions due to imperfect combustion. This is universal. There's no stove nor is there a gas type that prevents this. In all cases the result is a level that is now known to be a cause of adverse health effects.

So yeah the OP complains about Propane. I'll complain about NG, I have a NG cooktop at home, and even when it's -15C outside I open all the windows downstairs when cooking, and I can *STILL* see the result on my air quality meter spike in the living room, even before I add any food to the pan. I have a NG cooktop at home, and even when it's -15C outside I open all the windows downstairs when cooking, and I can *STILL* see the result on my air quality meter spike in the living room, even before I add any food to the pan.

Do you have a range hood? We don't, and it's insane to me. This house is so old it used to have a wood-fired stove in it, which vented into an old school brick chimney with a fireplace on the other side of the wall. Yes we do and yes we use it. They are far from perfect. But fun fact, where I live, external exhausting via a range hood will drop your energy rating on your house. Virtually all new build houses therefore have recirculating ranges with grease traps and carbon filters, but none of them have particulate filters.

They do however rely on heat recovery ventilating systems in the house, but literally every one I've seen in new houses is triggered by CO2, which is just stupid as it doesn't address a rising source They both produce toxins when burned in enclosed spaces. That’s why gas stoves were being phased out in California. New home and apartment construction lacks proper outdoor ventilation for cooking. Instead of being angry, cap the gas line at your other residence (wow, you have two, that's more than 95% of us which means you have more financial freedom to get what you want) and install another induction cook top like you have at the other residence.

As you said, you'll breathe less "toxic gas" and not have to use that awful fossil fuel anymore. But the key here is CHOICE. It's obvious from the fight that a lot of people do not want to be forced into electric appliances, and that is their choice. The in Morally and ethically, why should small polluters get off? It's not like GHG emissions from any source are that different. I get proportionality, but by what logic do you simply hand wave away small emitters?

Everyone is a polluter. All of the energy people use in all its forms (food, fuel, electricty), production of physical structures and products they own or use are all responsible for pollution. If you want moral consistency tax everyone. It's not like GHG emissions from any source are that different. I get proportionality, but by what logic do you simply hand wave away small emitters? Air pollution and climate change are different issues.

Using a gas appliance creates more localized pollution. In most places a reasonably efficient appliance results in the overall emission of less GHG vs its electric counterpart. Why does it make sense to tax the pers Morally and ethically, why should small polluters get off? It's not like GHG emissions from any source are that different. I get proportionality, but by what logic do you simply hand wave away small emitters?

Because the same people who are making these decisions decided to allow electric rates to be so high that natural gas is cheaper despite using 3x to 4x as much energy? Sorry, you can't have it both ways. If you're going to allow these companies to charge extortionate rates for electricity, you can't complain when everyone demands cheaper natural gas solutions. And if you want to smoke inside a home with children and elderly, that should be your choice too, right?

And if you want to smoke inside a home with children and elderly, that should be your choice too, right? Can you imagine a smoker tax where smokers get to smoke wherever they want so long as they pay a tax? Taxation is obviously the wrong vehicle to properly address your analogy. And with a decent induction hob you will have an even better temperature control. We have a propane cook top and oven at one residence and all electric at the other.

The smell from cooking with propane indoors is just awful, even with windows open and a breeze. Cool. The appropriate response is for you to buy an electric cook top to replace the propane one. An inappropriate and unethical response would be to demand that since you don't like propane, no one else can have one either. I assume the SCAQMD board had better reasons than "we personally don't like gas appliances".

Given they're politicians and regulators, I'm not entirely sure. Some studies say it's comparable to secondhand smoke. IIRC, and I don't have references, the latest thinking is secondhand smoke is no where near as dangerous as the hype made it out to be. And you can mitigate it by using a vent fan, but there again, that would be letting people take responsibility for their own health and the health of their dependents.

I assume the SCAQMD board had better reasons than "we personally don't like gas appliances". OK, I'll back off. I'm sure the SQAWMD publicly claimed to have less self-centered reasons. Being a grumpy cynical older man, I don't actually believe that for a minute. I expect they have an anti-gas, anti-fossil fuel religion and nothing you or I could say would possibly dissuade them. You might want to have the burner's fuel-air ratio checked.

LPG is a mixture of ethane, propane, and butane that depends on the source. I had a natural gas stove of the low cost variety and it had no noticeable smell. It also had terrible temperature control. The fire has a fixed flame temperature after all. Cooking rice was a challenge as was simmering anything. I was a bachelor so was not using big pots that could soak up the heat from the burners. Much of the flame went around the pots.

I see a lot of things changing in the future but politicans being illiterate about tech and science and health isn't going to change at all. They can usually quote a trenchant bible verse though, so we've got that covered. Unfortunately more and more of the decisions they face are going to be tech related, and dismantling the part of the goverment filled with experts and scientists is just going to make everything worse.

Yeah, no doubt it will be an arms race, just like against hackers. I have no doubt regulators who accept public comments will start screening and summarizing comments with AIs in an escalating cycle of throwing more and more inference into each side of the battle. It's kind of like job hunting today. A LLM creates a job description from bullet points, another LLM creates an application from bullet points, a third LLM compares the job description against the application, a fourth either conducts the interview That's almost like a proxy for democracy, at least to that individual person you are AI spamming.

If 20k people taking the time to go to this website, use the tools to generate a unqiue-ish letter to the person's elected official, then that elected official can also use AI to tally up the sentiment of those letters. The official will see, wow almost all of these letters are really against this idea and they are in my district. In a way, it would be better if we had even more civic engagement of the sort.

If If 20k people taking the time to go to this website, use the tools to generate a unqiue-ish letter to the person's elected official, then that elected official can also use AI to tally up the sentiment of those letters. If I were the intern working at Senator Krupt's office, the first thing I'd do is write a filter "Does this letter look like it was written by a human or a bot?" Bot emails would immediately go to the e-circular file and wouldn't even be counted.

His entire utility bill was significantly less then their neighbors power bill was alone. The amount of "use" you get out of a unit of NG at the given price point we get it from the utility is significantly better then the amount of "use" you get our of equal dollar amounts of watts. Especially with a TOU (time of use), where they ratchet the price up between 4pm-9pm (called fucking dinner time…).

With NG, there is no TOU. With the massive popularity of central air, electric room heating is a natural fit for California. One big problem with all electric though is the need for a large boiler with heatpump preheating for hot water. I wonder if it wouldn't be possible to make an affordable system which uses shower drain heat recovery with a close in heatpump and small boiler, to just generate continuous "hot" water for showering or filling a tub (temperature would be warmed straight to usage temperature, legionella control can be And the irony is that the AI generated more emissions preventing the bill than the bill would have saved if it was enacted.

Net result, the campAIgn generated twice the emissions. (Loosely speaking and not based on fact, but with at least one tongue in the cheek) Generates the same amount of particulates so trying to figure out gas isn't going to help anything none of the studies actually compare gas to normal cooking but you can go look it up for yourself. There may be more comments in this discussion. Without JavaScript enabled, you might want to turn on Classic Discussion System in your preferences instead.

Summary

This report covers the latest developments in artificial intelligence. The information presented highlights key changes and updates that are relevant to those following this topic.

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